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[robot]

I dont know if Im in a kundalini awakening or not. I apologize for the length of this but i dont know whats important. I feel very confused.
I have been very depressed for over 10 years. I have been as ungrounded as you can possibly be, probably for most of my life. For the longest time I havent felt like a person at all, unemotional (i forgot what emotions even felt like) yet this unbearable pain that felt like a living death. Unconnected, spaced out, no libido. No enjoyment of anything. No energy. I have had very few close relationships and even those tended to accentuate the truth that something is missing inside of me. Yet I lost my ability to emote, to cry or anything.
So. 2 years ago I began doing tai chi to reconnect with my body. After a year I felt buzzing in my 3rd eye. NOw, this was ignorant of me but at the time i didnt know what else to do. So i started focusing on it and one day it "popped" and that energy went all over my head. This made me worse and more spaced out and depersonalized.
I began to put more energy into my tan tien (2nd chakra) and one day, after some very desperate prayers,  i started having automatic movements as the energy pushed itself around. THis catharsis has been going on for 6 months. After a fast this year, and as I began to find out the kind of diet my body really wanted, I have had some peak experiences that have to be k-related. NOw its levelled out a bit. Ive been doing things like practicing standing to get grounded. Spontaneous chanting, humming, dancing, charleyhorses in my legs, dry-crying, laughing, shivers--and ALOT of coughing up old chi.
Im beginning to feel some emotions again. I have had a pranic awakening over most of my body. I feel buzzing in my root and heart chakras (and too much in the head, of course). Im sure that I have alot of repressed anger in me and Im beginning to let that out.
But. It seems to be slowing down. (Perhaps partially because Ive been trying to only do pranic exercises when I feel led to?) I have little faith in whats happening. Somehow over the past year I have some spiritual understanding that I am spirit and i havent been my true self; I do believe that . But I am still depressed often, now, and I feel a lack of heart to go on. Partially because Ive been depressed for so long, and now I shrink at the thought of another 10 years of this, constructive or no. Its hell. And partially because I dont feel secure in this "awakening" process. It seems more pranic than K. Im afraid thats its going to stop. I feel Ive got so much current-life karma built up, I fear Im going to go through the whole depression again--backwards! It feels like punishment. I know logically its not, but it feels like it. I cant fake a veneer of "acceptance" though that feeling does naturally fall on me sometimes.
Its hard also because I dont feel intuitive--intuition is a new thing with me, ive experienced it some this year but really its like theres a brick wall between me and feelings/guidance. Its like Im in a logical cul-de-sac--My kundalini is blocked down there, so i need to get it unblocked, but I want to surrender, not load up my days with practices that are supposed to help. Anything remotely mind-oriented like a meditation just doesnt work for me, Ive tried. THough, I seem to be in a lull, so part of me wonders if my Spirit wants me to do things like tai chi or seek a healer to potentiate the process and Im just not getting the message. Its left me in limboland.
Im not sure what my question even is! I guess Id appreciate any insights at all. I want to surrender, and that seems to be what this part of my life is about. but how much do i surrender to a depression? The apathy. I dont really like anything. I dont know what to do with my time. I dont want to be around people. Im not happy with my life but I dont feel like changing anything as the problems with me seem to me at the core of me, not outside things. I tried to fight it for so long and it didnt work; now that im doing the opposite I keep fearing that Im dropping the ball somehow, that Im supposed to push myself somehow. I just dont have the heart (besides not being able to think clearly or remember anything). The universe has been a very evil place, for me. and I feel abandoned when I feel so willing to give in but, still, cant find quite what to give in to.

[Mystress]

Hello, Robot:

 You have a lot of KA symptoms, so I'd vote yes on that question. That your process has gone a little sideways a few times because you did not know what you were doing...?  Well, that is why I make websites...

 Biggest issue with you though, is your soul has taken a hike... don't worry, you can call it back.
 
Read the links, as they appear, then come back and scroll down to read the rest of the post.
(If you want me to help, then follow my directions)
http://kundalini-teacher.com/guidance/thesoul.html











 That is responsible for most of your stuff.  Maybe you forgot it on a bus... LOL!  No big, you can call it back. Soul gone missing is a big part of your feelings of disconnectedness and not knowing what to do with your life.  Your soul selected your DNA and knows your life plan... what you came in for, and what gift you bring to the world. It has your joy and passion for life.

  Get very well grounded, then try this invocation:

 "Goddess, please gather all the parts and aspects of my soul, where ever they got to. Heal and integrate them, and put my soul back where it belongs. Thank you."

 Then take a deep breath to calm and distract yourself. Normal place for the soul is near the power chakra, influencing discernment. A common reaction to this.. getting your soul back,  is weeping with joy and relief.  Allow the release.






 The good news is, likely a lot of the karma and pain you have been feeling, is probably not actually yours.  When your soul has gone walkies and is no longer filling you with you, (it is your essential self)  along with the rootlessness is a tendency to become an empathic trash can for other people's karmic stuff.  That is why you hate being around people.  

The soul meditation will push what is not-you out.
http://kundalini-teacher.com/meditations/soul.html







 You can also ask for karma you are carrying that belongs to other people, to be turned over to the higher selves of the owners, in what ever way, shape, form or time, as Goddess wills.  Goddess will transform it into something they can use, and their own higher self can decide how it filters down. Keeps your ego out of the way... you don't even have to know where the stuff came from  Do it daily, there will be layers... also become very disciplined in staying grounded and keeping your energy turned inward so you are not triggering more empathic karma dumping. Don't fall into victimhood either, it will only dis-empower you.

 http://kundalini-teacher.com/chakras/empathy.html
http://kundalini-teacher.com/lessons/project.html




 Louise Hay says depression is anger turned inward, and it is validated in my experience.  Good that you are finding ways to release your anger- but also remember, what you focus on, will grow and anger is definitely one of those. Catharsis is valuable but introspection and self acceptance is the key. Underneath the anger, is a hurt place that needs love. Always.

 The lack of faith and worry that the process is stalled, is just self indulgent drama, another sort of resistance.  Doesn't sound like you have done such a hot job running your own life eh?  :-/  Maybe time to give the part of you that is Infinite, a shot at it.  

 Get your soul back, feed it with love and gratitide... and everything else will follow.

  Blessings...

 

[iansanityy]

hmmm about the popping in your 3rd eye....try doing your meditations and energy work in a lush natural environment, do you live by the water? Try going down to a beach, or the woods away from the city. Everything manufactured and engineered by man is increadibly bad for health, life and energy work (if your house has enough accumulated negative energy) sounds like your body couldn't compensate and blew a fuse. The more natural the settings are, the more grounding and oneness is available.

[robot]

hmmm about the popping in your 3rd eye....try doing your meditations and energy work in a lush natural environment, do you live by the water? Try going down to a beach, or the woods away from the city. Everything manufactured and engineered by man is increadibly bad for health, life and energy work (if your house has enough accumulated negative energy) sounds like your body couldn't compensate and blew a fuse. The more natural the settings are, the more grounding and oneness is available.

Thanks. I was going out to wooded areas (one by the lake) for awhile and it was great, I could scream if I wanted get violent with rocks or just explore--it helped. And I did feel more grounded, I felt like a kid again. Now, its just different. Im very nostalgic for the intensity of earlier this year, but Im dealing with it.
Its weird--I feel energy in my feet and legs usually but I may not feel grounded.
I dont feel like Im courting anger. It just comes up in me and I have to get it out. Even that, now, though is going. The nothingness feeling has become the usual again.
Im seeing a shaman I like (i think) who is helping me with soul retrieval work. I think that really thats my problem. I have no sense of self. I think the tai chi etc that Ive done has prepared me for my soul returning and I think groundedness will be closer to me when that begins.

[angelprayer]

So. 2 years ago I began doing tai chi to reconnect with my body. After a year I felt buzzing in my 3rd eye. NOw, this was ignorant of me but at the time i didnt know what else to do. So i started focusing on it and one day it "popped" and that energy went all over my head. This made me worse and more spaced out and depersonalized.

My head exploded too...have you been to www.dpselfhelp.com ?

I probably shouldn't recommend it...but anyway, it exists and can be fun at times. It's somewhere you can read and talk about experiences.

[angelprayer]

Going to a support site for depesonalised folks probably only reinforces my acceptance of the condition. I was just thinking through your meditation/affirmation Mystress, about having the parts of my soul reintegrated and put back. I felt sad to come back to my body because I feel I must protect myself from not being liked. I also hate being around people altough I try my utmost to enjoy other's company. Usually I just zone out, emotionally and mentally and laugh my head off and ignore the other person and it just about gets me through. I can't stand the feeling of owing anything...but that was how I grew up. I think I stopped knowing how to act around people principly because I felt like my designated function on earth is to be an empathic trash can and pin-point for all things wrong in the world for my mum. What I find now is that I can only enjoy myself and be myself...if that is a contradiction...if my soul is not in my body, but somewhere else where no one else can take it for their own.

[Mystress]

If you believe someone can take your soul, then you are making that person be God for you, and if they are God for you then your karma will flow to them... sort of like cursing them, eh?

 You think you are better off with your soul out of your body? Ask your body how it feels about being abandoned every time you get uncomfortable, eh? Left to fend for itself?

 

[angelprayer]

If you believe someone can take your soul, then you are making that person be God for you, and if they are God for you then your karma will flow to them... sort of like cursing them, eh?

 You think you are better off with your soul out of your body? Ask your body how it feels about being abandoned every time you get uncomfortable, eh? Left to fend for itself?

 

Two people have been God's to me in my life, but the strange thing is that feeling "God" of my own life also makes me quite scared...My mother was like a God she actively demands to be a God of the house. And I went along with it for a long time, feeling the loss of autonomy and emptiness tangibly. Now I do what I want and tell her that is the case....and for some reason it also scares me. She is schizphrenic and has 1st chakra insecurity, like in a very big way, and so my not being under her control is very scary for her...and I realise for me.

So anyway I've detached from her, somehow, but really through making someone else my God, a guy called S. He acts like a God as well --- always identifying with the authority of God, plus he has outstanding practical intelligence. He has said some pretty negative stuff about me, but for some reason I always think he is whiter than white. I didn't realise that this was making him God but now I see I took it all from the horses mouth. Incredibly I feel like a possession of his.

I've just asked my body about being abandoned and for some reason I think it doesn't want me in it.

[jimmyb]

You are your own God. Who do you think your higher-self/Godess actually is. Show it/her some respect, accept your higher-self/Godess instead of trying to seek guidence from other peoples higher-selves/Godesses. In doing so you are wearing your self down and and boosting the likes of others. You need to love yourself unconditionally and have full belief in yourself and Godess so that you can be.

The reason that your body does not want you in it is because you are projecting energy into other sources. Focus your energy on yourself only. keep yourr thoughts focused on yourself and not other people as they can think and energise for themselves.

Before I started looking into this spiritual thing I'd some how realised that I was in fact my own God and that I did exist above myself somewhere whether it was in heaven or a few feet above my head as it is perceived I was unsure..

[angelprayer]

At the moment I'm focussing more on the heart as my guide, and trying to respect others feelings a little more as I have been taking guidance from a source which has hurt me. The good thing is that a broken heart is a very open on in some ways.

[robot]

Thanks angelprayer.
DP does make some sense in my case, but the telltale symptoms of that particular syndrome I have only experienced at certain times. Its the closest thing, but it doesnt quite fit. And even if it did...where does it get us? I agree.
On our soul problems...I appreciate the Mystress' advice and it has helped me. But I would like to say it may not be so simple for everyone to say a prayer meditation. I felt i needed help. I have seen a shaman about this and, in my case, he believes that my spirit guide has been withholding my soul from me so that I would achieve self-realization in this life.
Loving myself unconditionally...this is not easy. Solutions like these always beg the question: If i could love myself then I wouldnt have this problem! So, how do i love myself if i dont feel love? I dont know. Maybe its best to start with what you DO feel and let it lead to everything else. I feel anger and desperation and Im sick of how my life has been. For me, its healthy. For me, allowing myself to have a kind of holy anger without guilt first allows me to experience passion (something i need!) and its teh beginning of self love. Accepting that anger is not something to be ashamed of but natural--even constructive--energy.
I think we are all in very different places, as you and I seem to be even though they are soul issues.
The way Ive been thinking is, first: imagining things being different (setting my intention). and: realizing that, someday it is going to be different whether in this life or another. so why not now? Thats helping me get to the center of my issue, at least i think, while i think there are limits to how much someone elses advice can help-since we are all so different.
I agree with jimmy b. people who try to help often project the bias of their own experience/issues. The shaman is helping but since then its put MORE responsibility on me than ever. I feel like Im dong most of the work! Thats probably a good thing.
I wish i could get into my heart chakra.

robot

Going to a support site for depesonalised folks probably only reinforces my acceptance of the condition. I was just thinking through your meditation/affirmation Mystress, about having the parts of my soul reintegrated and put back. I felt sad to come back to my body because I feel I must protect myself from not being liked. I also hate being around people altough I try my utmost to enjoy other's company. Usually I just zone out, emotionally and mentally and laugh my head off and ignore the other person and it just about gets me through. I can't stand the feeling of owing anything...but that was how I grew up. I think I stopped knowing how to act around people principly because I felt like my designated function on earth is to be an empathic trash can and pin-point for all things wrong in the world for my mum. What I find now is that I can only enjoy myself and be myself...if that is a contradiction...if my soul is not in my body, but somewhere else where no one else can take it for their own.

[Mystress]

I have seen a shaman about this and, in my case, he believes that my spirit guide has been withholding my soul from me so that I would achieve self-realization in this life.

 That makes no sense at all. You believed it? oy.

[robot]

> That makes no sense at all. You believed it? oy.

I dont know how i would know. What makes sense?
I dont know what to believe. Im a skeptic. But Im desperate.
Its not true in a certain sense, because now Im beginning to think I have a kind of "right" to my own soul--and its important i know Im worthy of it. This deep belief of unworthiness (and repression) is whats dragged me down and fed on itself.
I think it might make sense in another: before, I was just trying to feel better--just like trying drugs or practices to feel better, then let my ego tug me along. By not getting what i *thought* i wanted, Ive been brought to a place where thats not enough. Though maybe thats simplistic. He felt that one good thing that would come of it was that it would give me experience that would help me help others in the future. And he did say that the fogginess around me is something hes never seen before--he was only able to tell me the little he did by journeying several times. (We first tried a simple reading--and he was surprised that he couldnt even read me! At least I know hes not trying for my cash since hes not charged me but the once.)
I hope its helping me regardless. I dont know if it makes sense to you, but even if it turns out hes a complete charlatan I dont regret going to him.
Thanks for responding again! Its nice to know your getting to read the board...i thought this thread had died long ago.

robot

[Mystress]

> That makes no sense at all. You believed it? oy.
now Im beginning to think I have a kind of "right" to my own soul--and its important i know Im worthy of it. This deep belief of unworthiness (and repression) is whats dragged me down and fed on itself.

 The soul is the core of you, your Divine Spark. Yes, you have an absolute right to it, and it will obey your calling it back.

 I am a genuine, born Shaman, but call me Mystress because most people who say they are a Shaman, aren't and the stuff they do is really misguided. Many of them really don't even understand what the term means, they just think it sounds cool.

>...
I hope its helping me regardless. I dont know if it makes sense to you, but even if it turns out hes a complete charlatan I dont regret going to him.
Thanks for responding again! Its nice to know your getting to read the board...i thought this thread had died long ago.

robot

 It is good you have a positive attitude about the Shaman. See, you can be positive!

 The board marks new posts for me, even if the thread is old.That is the nice thing about a board, instead of  email- people can respond to a thread, even years later because everything is archived. I visit the board nearly every day, but sometimes after deleting the spam I don't feel like writing, or Goddess has not told me what to say, yet.

[robot]

This is the best I can come up with: That Im so far gone I dont even 'feel' whats missing. I have so little access to the 'power' thats supposed to be here in me. People suggest getting grounded, and i just dont seem to be able to; you suggested calling the soul back, there seemed so little power when i tried. I think thats changing some, now, but its taken 2 months of 30 minutes a day pushing my intention on this. At first I felt nothing, and still the fog is so blinding its hard to see what to put my intention on. Intention needs emotion--and thats what Im missing! There is so much fog and cant even see the fog! Does that make sense?
Other people talking about soul being gone seem to talk about experiencing themselves being out of body, and as you say, being empathic trash cans, probably from a bad relationship. And none of that feels true for me. I dont feel here, but I dont feel outside myself either, and i dont feel its with other people (neither did the shaman). I feel nowhere.
The best thing i can latch onto are vague, thin memories and dreams I had when i was a kid--a handful, really. (My memory and imagination are almost nonexistent, I dont *feel* their presence). This fuels my minds eye when im imagining my soul and feeling coming back to me. Its hard to imagine these things, they seem so abstract.
By the way, when i saw the shaman i decided not to mention soul retrieval (you were the first person to mention it to me); so after he admitted he couldnt read me, he suggested we start soul retrieval work. Though I dont know much about it, I might be lucky because I think he is for real, and quite down to earth. I know hes been doing this for 25 years, I think when he was twelve a navajo woman told him he was a shaman and she taught him (thankfully he doesnt talk about atlantis or aliens!). I do think Im something new to him and he doesnt quite know what to do with me. Usually, he says, he does a journeying, animal totems and guides show up, he then helps the person reintegrate the part, and thats it.
Question: He did say that often in retrievals or chakra balancing, the change is not immediate but is noticed in the next few weeks. Does it happen this way in your experience?

Thanks, your thoughts and encouragement are very helpful!

robot

[angelprayer]

Question: He did say that often in retrievals or chakra balancing, the change is not immediate but is noticed in the next few weeks. Does it happen this way in your experience?

To be honest I am surprised by what he says about chakras. In my experience - literally from the first experience - things were instantaneous and often dramatic. I have noticed that some chakras/blockages have taken a matter of weeks to improve. In those circumstances I could feel they were clearing. Usually these things would happen spontaneously and I am still curious but a bit skeptical about someone else bringing about changes in my etheric body without my knowing exactly what is going on. So I haven't seen anyone for chakra improvements, aside from a psychotherapist who didn't in any case know that kundalini was my system of reference.

I found the soul retrieval meditation useful. If I focus hard I can bring my mental life back to my body but it is quite effortful and doesn't get to the problem that causes it. So I found the asking my body why I can't stay in it more useful, and solving the underlying psychological problems

From what I understand people with depersonalisation are wide and varied, anyway, and some are more "spiritual" than others. I have always attributed a spiritual meaning to my derealisation. But others don't necessarily. I thought my derealisation was due to "scattering of chern" ie. a feeling of my mental life not being contained fully in the gross body.

Is this what people call the soul? Have always wondered what the soul/spirit distinction was.

In any case, invisaging the "mental parts" descending back into my head really does seem to help, temporarily.

The meaning I attribute to my derealisation is to learn how to master my subtle mental life, the derealisation was merely a part of that process. In a way this correlates with the words of the Shaman, however the locus of control is different. Ie. he says it is your higher self making a decision about your subtle life. It's hard to visualise the process of dissociation in terms of "control", but basically, if you chakras are open and balanced, if you are able to take joy in material life as well as spiritual, and if you have the patience to counteract anxieties...are able to pull energies down in the body instead of allowin them to build on the intellectual mind...it's hard to imagine the disorder being there.

In yoga they say it is as necessary to be able to spiritually relax as it is to physically relax. In psychology they approach dissociation in terms of containment. Whatever the meaning, visualisation can probably help.

[robot]

Well, here's an update incase anyone's interested.
I cant believe how hard its been, but Im beginning to break through something, at least. I havent seen the shaman again, but I just emailed him so I might talk to him soon. I didnt notice any change from the soul retrieval we did. But talking to him encourages me.
I ran across a book called "The science of getting rich" and this introduced me to the Law of Attraction and that has really opened my eyes. I realize that Ive created this empty world Im in and its not reality.
Visualisation is very impt to me right now, and it is very hard to visualise meaningfully the things I want most--for example, feeling like myself and feeling like Im in the world and am loved--especially since Ive forgotten what these things even are, so they are very abstract to me. So Ive ended up mostly visualising one simple thing: myself smiling--often, wearing a tshirt of whatever color that strikes me. UsuallY:
blue: (oneness and belonging)
green: (renewal and life)
orange: (excitement and energy)
yellow: (childhood and healing)
So, Ive invented Tshirt therapy. Luckily I can change tshirts quickly since its just in my imagination.
Ive begun having intentional laughter sessions for about an hour a day. I cry sometimes, and this is really amazing for me (but it only seems to happen on days when Ive had an orgasm earlier. I dont know why. Is the orgasm releasing stuff, or just relaxing me enough to be more emotional?) I still feel Im mostly not here. I still can hardly speak, very nonspontaneous. But a little more spontaneous. Smiling a bit more. I feel the first rays of love, I think, sometimes. Im intent on receiving the very best for myself. Its a challenge. I feel Ive hardly begun. The deep boredom of not feeling is the toughest. (Its hard to not masturbate, since that is one of the few ways I can feel excited and feel something, but I think its best for me not to.)
2 weeks ago I felt something I havent felt in a long time. I just felt this awareness of the world around me and it was friendly. I went on a bike ride and instead of trying to enjoy it or telling myself i was, I actually did! I forgot what that even felt like!!! I see this feeling coming and staying.
I cant believe how hard this is!

[Mystress]

Yes I am interested in your progress, Robot.


I ran across a book called "The science of getting rich" and this introduced me to the Law of Attraction and that has really opened my eyes. I realize that Ive created this empty world Im in and its not reality.

I watched "the secret" movie about the law of attraction, for me it contained no new information, in fact what surprised me was the title:  that the basic cosmic laws of attraction and manifestation are still a secret to anyone! A good friend once said that my biggest failing as a teacher is expecting other people to know stuff that is obvious to me.

 Why the resistance to masturbating? It is healthy to do it, especially for a guy your age. Every day, even twice a day is not too often.  It promotes emotional release, physical relaxation and a healthy prostrate gland.  It is perfectly OK to use masturbation to enjoy your body and get in touch with your feelings.  The only thing to be careful of, is that most types of porn are not a healthy focus. Instead, just enjoy the simple pleasure of touch.

 I like the T-shirt therapy, and the laughing... very good!

 I want you to notice that the things you have come up with, to help yourself are working better for you, than what other people suggested.  I believe within each of us, is the wisdom to help ourselves. That is why get resistant when people want me to fix them.  We all need a helping hand once in a while, but being anybody's savior is disempowering for them, in the long term because they don't get to discover their own, inner power if they give it away to someone else.

 Bravo!!

[robot]

Thank you!
I just wasnt ready for manifestation and the law of attraction...id heard it before and was very resistant. But this time I had no choice but face it.
I will consider what you said. I am very confused about masturbating--everyone has a different opinion, and in some shools ejaculation or not ejaculating makes a difference. In the end, Im seeking whats best for me right now, just not sure what it is. I do tend to think I function better when i hold onto the energy--say, I get into playing my guitar, can speak more naturally, and the laughing sessions are better. On the other hand, there was one week where I did masturbate a few times everyday and I felt great...and when i stopped, i felt crappy for about 2 weeks until it built up again. So its complicated. Now, I have been lately arousing myself for awhile and learning to enjoy it without a full-on orgasm. Its nice, I guess (though a big time-waster since i never know when to stop!), and Im not sure how its different than if i ejaculate, I havent had a chance to experiment for a few weeks.
Right now, I really desire a sexual partner(s) so Im kinda letting this decision potentiate my feelings that Im going to find them. I dont like the fantasies I have to come up with to get me excited, they arent healthy--and even those dont work great unless i havent gotten off in awhile. I just dont have much libido and I have to work at it (This makes me think maybe my body can use that energy). Anyway Id rather have a sexual relationship where I respect the person and they dont expect more than I expect, since Im not interested in a serious, committed relationship--Im just not ready for that until I feel emotionally alive! But I feel I might be about ready to be affectionate with someone and connect in that way...Id really like that. As you know, I have this deep need to connect with the world again and for years its shown itself as this deep sexual pain. Id like to change that and begin feeling satisfied--not just sexually, but in all ways.
Interesting that recently I keep running into exgirlfriends (a couple called me out of the blue, another gave me her phone number after not seeing her for 3 years) and spontaneous social situations, and though Im not entirely comfortable with them theyve gone pretty well--its like people are somehow interested in me but its more like encouraging signs. I feel that the Im being reminded that the people I need will appear (and in the past have appeared) when Im ready.
Anyway Ill let you know how the experiment goes...Ill see how I feel, say, Thanksgiving. Ill keep my eyes and ears open for any messages from the universe about my sexuality. Or better yet, maybe Ill meet someone soon who is compatible with where I am right now and I wont have to decide!
thanks again

[Mystress]

 "All acts of love and pleasure serve the Goddess."

  and

"What is given to Goddess comes back multiplied if it is meant to be."


 Put those two phrases together, dedicate your orgasms as an offering to the Goddess and you won't experience the same loss of energy. Blessings!

[tiny_sounds]

Hi Robot,

my names Jack and over the past three years I have gone through much of what you have described.
Depression, feelings of being almost unworthy of your spirit (or feeling unable to experience physically the light it wants to express) lack of emotions, etc etc.

First and foremost I would say listen to everything that Mystress says, I went to one of her weekend sessions, and can say from experience that she's very big, very powerful and very experienced. She knows the nature of spirit and all it's pitfalls (if you can call them that, they're aren't any really, it's our minds that are the pitfalls in most cases!) inside and out.

I know how mundane, flat and let down you feel now but you have to understand that you've opened yourself up to a love that is huge and unconditional. The trouble with that is, it shakes our foundations and scares us on a intellectual level. There is a part of us (or rather our mind, I feel) that feels almost unhworthy of this love and power. It so vast and overwhelming that it triggers our fear. This is completely normal, although very hard at first too. I didn't want to leave my room, or even look at anyone for a couple of years. I'm not saying this will happen with you, everyone is different, but you can rest assured that it will leave you.

For me personally, I began to become aware that once I had opened up  to all of this, I had separated myself into more than one self. The  self that was powerful, loving and light, and the self which was the absence of that. I feel that it's the fact that your normal waking consciousness that you've lived with all of your life seems like such an infant compared with this new (but not really new, it's always been there! ) higher self. This rocks your boat so much because you have based yourself on the consiousness that you have lived with up until now. So the result is an innitial shock to the system, one of fundermental questioning and search for self again.

However, all of this sounds like Kundalini is the bringer of dispair. It's not. I'm no expert at all, and would not like to give you advice which doesn't suit you, as I'm only guessing at where you are at. But I personally, left meditation alone for a while and concentrated on my heart. For me, this is what brought me home and gave me the reasurence that I so desperately needed. It always will. The more you feel your heart and let it's quiet pull you in, the more this defragmented self slips away. You begin to reaalise that this love is always there really, we just aren't listening. The Kundalini is like the 400W amp that blasts the love into out of your stereo and into your bones............and it's gonna give you a ringing in your ears for a while.

Just come back to heart, be quiet, be patient and don't fear. All will  be nice again before too long.

Warm regards,
Jack  

[robot]

Thanks Jack, I appreciate your help.
I havent experienced anything intense, really, or anything bringing of change that might be called kundalini. The depersonalisation  etc.  hasn't been brought on by kundalini, its been around for years. I havent arrived at some crisis. My whole life has been a crisis so huge I couldnt even see it was a crisis! And since I couldnt see it, it just got worse.
Whats happened is, Ive went about as far from being "living" as you can go...so, even *further* from an awakened conciousness. Thats whats confusing to me,now. Do I have further to go than most, or what? Im not asking you , just something I wonder about. Not worried about how I compare to others, just trying to understand.
When I do feel anything now, its like breathing after drowning, its the sweetest water in the world...and thats just a little of what most people feel normally, day to day feeling of being alive on a mundaner level. Im talking just about basic emotion.
I do feel somehow convinced of the basic spiritual truths. They seem so obvious to me, as if my life has been a proof by counterexample!
All my chi is my head and I have no idea how long its going to take to get any kind of balance. I look to my heart and feel nothing. (Funny, the more rooted I feel, the energy in my 3rd eye moves higher up my forehead and I can think clearer.)
It still feels that the little conciousness Ive been left with, a remnant of what you call the mind, is stretching out for the depths the best it can. I'd love for something to take over and say, well Steven, heres some intense craziness you cant control so you might as well go along with it and let it do its work! That would feel like a relief! That's why its been so hard. Ive been trying for years to fix this hole in me and have never felt anything like the universe responding to me, until recently.
But really, in the end its all "kundalini", of course. Who knows where this is taking me.  A deep trust is beginning to take root in me, and it feels like a massive change.

[tiny_sounds]

Hi Steven,

It does sound like you are having a rough time, and if I were you I would look at it like this.........you say you have always felt the way you do. Then perhaps the Kundalini has surfaced in order to give you the neccessary boost in self awareness that you need in order to pull yourself out of the head space you have always lived with.  

It feels to me, that comparing yourself to others and how they feel compared to you, is playing a big part in your dis-empowerment. You say that you aren't doing this, but then go on to say, 'and thats just a little of what most people feel normally, day to day....'      
The reason why Im pointing this out is to illustrate the struggle that is going on here (and one that I fall into a lot as well). That directly after renouncing something, it pops up and rears its ugly head! Instead of pushing it away with all your might try something else...................think of the thought. Own it. And see how it makes you feel. Feel you body as you own this statement................Then make a consious effort to let it go. However when you do this, try not to approach it with the idea that you have to go through your whole life without ever thinking this thought. Just try letting it for a second or maybe a few, and see how you feel.

For me, the more I did this, the more I became aware of its presence, and the more I was able to let go of these thoughts.
During the past three years of my life, after loosing every ounce of my self-confidence and happiness, I (very much unconsciously) build up a whole world of recentment for what others had or where feeling. Letting that go, and comming back to your own heart, no matter how cold it feels at present, is the only thing that will allow you to connect with your joy in 'simply being'.

Im glad you say that you are beginning to feel some change. Ride it, and it'll all be good.

take care mate, be well,
Jack

[robot]

Sort of an update...Maybe someone else has or is experiencing some of the same things. And of course Im always open to helpful comments & suggestions.
The chi cloud around my head--the top-heavy balloon thats an indication of how ungrounded I am!-- has started to spill downwards. I had been doing a meditation cd (holosync) and one day I started to put energy into my heart. Before this, I couldnt move my energy much with my thought. This time my heart heated up and started spilling it down and it seems into a microcosmic orbit. Ive been feeling it down in my feet, at least.
This change has not accompanied a noticeable shift in conciousness. Still mentally fuzzy and spaced out. Sometimes it has felt pleasant, though, with my body feeling softer somehow and more "together". I think it helps if I spend time focusing on my heart but not sure about this. I feel that I could try the Grounding meditation now that I feel more capable. Pulling energy from my head down to heart and lower seems like a really good idea for me!
Really, the only thing I know right now is catharsis. When there's stuff to get rid of, there's just no argument against it. The meditation has helped my moods and softened the experience of feeling resistant, painful energies and getting them out. When they come out smoothly, its ALOT of relief...orgasmic, really. Ive also learned to express "negative" energy like anger/frustration without negative thoughts. Im amazed but its possible! I dont even call it "anger" anymore because more & more its just energy. I started with repeating positive affirmations during the release; now its evolved to just saying "Im not the kind of person who can keep this kind of energy in and just be okay!" or "Im not expected to keep this energy inside me!"
It works like this: A mood will come to me, like theres something inside me making all the world seem ugly, disgusting, or scary...all the affirmations in the world and it will still not be denied. When I get the chance it either means dancing/shaking wildly, discharging it through muscle tensing, or some other such thing...the energy tells me what it wants.
Thats the easy part.
Usually. The hard part is that another kind of stuff is coming up that makes me intensely physically weak. I havent figured out a way to get rid of it consistently yet. What will happen is that eventually I will have a random fit of laughter, or more rarely, crying, some weird energy will choke me and Ill have these special coughs that are SO relieving. My energy comes back, the world seems so much better. The problem is Ill go on for weeks too tired to get out the other frustrated energy thats come up, and itll be hell. The stress energy cant be catharted and the weakness thing stays, too...all of it keeping my worldview dark and its IMPOSSIBLE to be positive if its bad enough. Im too tired or tense to meditate (meditation just brings up more of the stuff that weakens me). I do my best!
I know there are laws beyond just catharsis, and I wonder how much meditation will alter what seems to be my reality for the present. For now, though, it seems theres always the same few things coming up. I look forward to the time when these pains turn to other emotions! Crying, and love, feelings for people... In 2 years a few times these things came up. I cant get the crying thing down, yet! But another thing Ive learned is that you have to deal with whatever feeling is on top and leave the other ones for later.
I think its regretful that so little is being said these days about catharsis. Ive learned so much I could write a book! As I said, its not the only principle, but for some people at least its very important. Trying to use the law of attraction is just another prison, taken by itself, for me. You have to cultivate and so work with what is there, and if you have just too much antipathy towards a belief, though it be the truth, its best to wait until you are resonating with it more.
I do feel like Im learning alot in this lifetime. Its prompted a search and a spiritual awakening in me (though it often seems largely cerebral and unrooted). Its like a scientific experiment where you simplify by eliminating all variables but one to isolate the principles at work. It is very clear to me that reality is not "out there" but inside myself, as Ive seen the world change completely through whats happening in me. A complete loss of myself has given me the experience of emptiness, and, by their absence, a profound respect for feeling and love and harmony. How these things move through you, and how liberating it is to ride them in their moment, unattached: the buzz of being. An appreciation for the ego-less and the things that really matter. Even if they seem so far away.
I would love to be able to ask and receive my soul back. I have asked for it, affirmed for it, and still I am on a slow path. If it must be, it must be. But am I missing something? Or is it possible that its just this way for me? Maybe I could try the grounding meditation and see if I can get into a grounded state so that I can do the soul retrieval request. When ive done it before i know I wasnt grounded at all. Thats my whole problem...I think I need my soul to ground me!
In my situation would it be okay to focus on the heart chakra? I wonder if that would imbalance me more, if say my heart were ungrounded & forced open (if that could even happen with the heart as it did with my head). It definitely feels good to move some to my belly if my heart gets too full, but my heart seems to usually send the energy along anyway. And the heart is supposed to be a balancer, right?

[sushi]

I guess you could open the heart with a nice mantra something like om mani padme hum is nice or any that siuts you.I often feel like screaming and then feel a lot of love afterwards.But its annoying having stuff coming up all the time.Dynamic meditation is clearing and grounding Osho developed it specifically for this purpose.