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[melodicvibrations]

This is a question for the awake beings here about time and linear movement...


Sages like Robert Adams, Ramana, Nisargadatta, Ramesh, Muktananda (even Einstein)  etc have said that consciousness (I AM) resides outside of time/space and that everything related to the body is pre-destined... as in "the movie is in the can", and that the only freewill you have is to find out who you are.  Even healing's are within this predetermined life path.

To quote Ramana

"Are only the important things in a man's life, such as his main occupation or profession, predetermined, or are trifling acts also, such as taking a cup of water, or moving from one part of the room to another?

To which Ramana replied:

             "Everything is predetermined".

    "The Sage, whose thinking mind has been destroyed by the total acceptance of the fact that nothing happens unless it is the will of God, and Who rests in the 'I AM' does all the actions with the knowledge that Consciousness alone functions through the billions of body-mind organisms."


For someone who does work with time/space stuff... How is this perceived?  Or is it even too big for the mind to grasp?

[Duu]

Cosmologically I think it we must sort which thing we will talk about.
Whether we will talk about mind concepts, mind metaphors or about the facts.
Past and future are mind concepts not facts.
The idea I is a mind concept not a fact.
So how can an fact be explained without a mind concepts? Thats an essence of a zen koan.
Obviously there is a way or we would not have koans. I think it is however only a way to know, not a way to discuss about it.
We can disscus lot about koans but not about the lesson recieved.

So there is an urge to make saying of saint given to other person at other time as a cosmological dogma. But with that we might well do the opposite of what his main message was. Not to play in the mind, but to get free. Is answering a Ramana question less important to you, than a meaning of his remark?
We would be so glad to receive a fact from a master. So we could categorize it, and worship it. But when we receive a set of koans instead of that ,we feel quite deceived. But mind can (sadly) fix even this situation in no time.

love,
Duu

[Mystress]

Duu has given an excellent response.

  How you see the universe depends on what chakra level you look from. At the highest level its all Goddess so of course everything is Divine Will.

  Move down a few chakras, at the power chakra awakened people wrestle with these ideas as issues of faith, and indeed total faith that it is all predestined is a type of fatalism that can bring great peace. On that same level you can observe that the universe seems to change when you change how you think about it, which suggests our free will has effect. Move that back to the higher chakras and our free will itself is part of Divine plan.

  Switch over to the multidimensional, and in an infinite universe there are an infinite number of *you* having an infinite number of different lives, and time and space does not exist.

  Like Duu said, it is a koan, don't try too hard to get ego to understand, thats missing the point.

[melodicvibrations]

Thanks for the response as always.  This stuff is beyond immense.....  I only posted it because I was reading some advaita type stuff, it has this dry incomplete feeling to it though as if it wasn't the whole truth (not referring to ramana of course, just some of the modern "Sages") (some of these modern guys seem to have only intellectual understanding?).  

 I guess I'm stuck in between what the difference is between "Awakening" or Kundalini or if it's the same thing.  Some of the sages have said they didn't have Kundalini, which puts me into a confusion about the whole spiritual process. "Mooji" talked about "find the one who witnesses Kundalini if you are having this experience"  I've got some kind of unfolding going on that is very energetic, but I've never had the throw you against the wall kundalini experience.  The Zen guys say silence holds the key for someone who is awakening to stabilize but for some reason there is so much karma being kicked up sitting in silence is not possible at this point.  For some reason the grounding on the website doesn't effect me, maybe I am just unable to visualize it correctly.   FST course looks like it has a lot to offer... as soon as I get the cash I think it will be the way to go for further understanding.