Search

[Wanda]

I'm having a bit of a weird problem.

A year ago, I experienced ego death, and after a 8 month sojourn in the underworld, I've been out for 4 months now. All this time, I've lacked a sense of identity, or personhood, or whatever one wants to call it. When I was dead, it kind of made sense considering the state I was in, but now that I'm alive again, I've started to wonder whether I will stay this way or what.

When I returned to the living, then at first I was just grateful to be out of the underworld and to feel connected again, to God, to people, to the world around me. I still very much enjoy that, everything still seems new and fresh and bathed in a wonderful light! Alone or in the crowd, I'm perfectly content with a sort of impersonal participation in the overall environment, dissolving into the whole.

With interpersonal relationships though, per definition I need to be a person to relate to other persons. I remember the person I used to be, so I draw on these memories to enact the appropriate roles in various social situations. Things get a little more complicated when a new kind of situation arises, then I ask God for help, and act spontaneously. The resulting behavior might be out of place (from a normal point of view), but thankfully I haven't gotten into too much trouble yet.

I read in Mystress'es writings that sometimes an archetypal deity steps in and takes over from the ego. I had a dream at one point that could be interpreted this way. The character that occasionally appeared to me to teach me while I was in the underworld, came and offered me a mask. I accepted it and put it on. Yet, I'm not sure how this "wearing the deity's face" works in everyday life... For me, it feels more like belonging to her in the supernatural realm.

Usually, when I'm around people, it doesn't matter much that I'm not a person. They're perfectly content with getting a role or a reflection from me. But how about close relationships, like with friends and lovers? This would require a kind of opening up and letting them see what's on the inside, and what's inside, is just emptiness... Not a depressing kind of emptiness, not a blissful kind of emptiness, simply a neutral nothing.   

I'm cool I guess with not having any specific desires or goals or such, but I am finding it somewhat difficult to believe that God would wish me to spend the rest of my life without friendships or romantic/sexual love. Ain't this what being embodied and having a human experience is all about? 

A while ago, I had a session with the Mystress, and I tried to communicate my predicament to her by saying "I don't know who I am." To which she responded, "Me neither, and it doesn't bother me at all."  I do get it why you said that, but could you also give me some advice about how to live with this, in practice?

Anyone who's been there, you're very welcome to share.

[Jeff]

Wanda,

I am definitely not an expert with your issue, but I was recently reading some Osho's work that you might find useful.  Take a look at his Secret of secrets.  I think that you will find some of his discussion on Aloneness (in part 2) helpful. The text is free at the Osho site.

Namaste, Jeff

[Da Zues Mon]

I masquerade as what I want to be
only because I cannot show you the real me.
I laugh and cry inside,
my embrace, hidden from public eye.

Perhaps when the neon walls crumble
we could see all fierce and humble.
No longer would we have to mumble.

Long gone into an abyss, every night I die.
Pain filled with bliss every time I cry.
Raining tears to nourish the thirst.
I am immersed in what some would call a curse.
Know that I am driving my own hearse,
digging my own grave
to wake and see another day.

...A lil' something I wrote a couple months back during an underworld phase.

I noticed I have more inspiration when those phases kick in hence the isolation and introversion. When I'm not under, I don't find myself doing anything "artsy" like writing, painting, or composing music; I Guess I just get enough art through living life and existence itself when I'm connected.

When I go under I feel like a junkie. It's hard to get out of bed. I feel sick, cold and dead. I dont want anything from anyone even if it's positive. I'm afraid to interact with some people because I could bring them down under, but they usually get the idea from the dark shadows that lurk around me.
I too, Wanda, do not feel like I can be a part of an intimate relationship, at least with "normal" people. I, against my will, have to cut off ties with everyone and even close friends. Gasping for life, I reach for food, pain, warmth, and my cousin for he is a very earthy person and being with him tends to balance me out(funny because his zodiac sign is Libra).
But sometimes, I have no where to run. It rips away at my attachments. Perhaps that is why it's happening. All I can do is surrender and embrace the hands that bring me down into the graves.

Namaste<3

[Wanda]

Thank you, Jeff.

Thank you, Da Zues Mon.
It's a beautiful poem... Keep digging, there's a treasure hidden there. 


Let me see if I can describe my situation more clearly. My new self is sort of amorphous, and all over the place. It is showing no signs of crystallizing into a distinct personality.

I feel (episodically overwhelming) tenderness and affection towards everything around me, but I find myself unable to focus it on anyone in particular. When everything has become special, then no single individual can be more special and significant than all the others...

I can't help but to perceive this as a kind of loss, as if my pre-existing important relationships had been invalidated somehow. It's like they have dissolved into this great "sea of love".

I have also lost the ability to instigate and cultivate new relationships.

To use a computer analogy, my brain does a "restart" periodically, and all the "history" I've made during the session is deleted. In the Now, there is no past or future. There's no linearity to my living, and therefore, no emotional continuity from one moment to the next.

How then could feelings develop and deepen into an intimate relationship?

This doesn't seem like a wholesome and fulfilling way to live a human life... I'm wondering how to "do" intimacy at this stage. Also, is there a way I could help my self in acquiring more shape and structure, without building up a new ego? 

[Jeff]

Wanda,

Try considering the difference between aloneness and oneness. You seem to desire "special relationships", which implies there is still an I who wants things. Past the ego is described as oneness.

Peace & Love, Jeff

[Wanda]

Dear Jeff,

I read the Osho essay you suggested.

As I understood it, he says that true intimacy only becomes possible once you stop craving it as a distraction from existential loneliness, or later, from metaphysical aloneness.

It did prompt me to try and discern whether there is an "I", who "desires" close relationships, and what for.

The thing is... This past year, I've embraced aloneness to the extent I never thought possible. I let go of everyone I ever loved, was cut off from the world of the living, felt forlorn by God, and in the end, was deserted even by my own Beloved. It was all good. The moment I resurrected, I was connected again, and this time, to everything there is at once. It was a bit overwhelming at first (lotsa noise after the quiet), but I adjusted, and I'm grateful at every breath.

Yet, I would like to have someone special in my life, someone I could open up to and share with... As a person, not just a vessel delivering something.

To me, Osho's advice sounds a little like "if you want shoes, chop off your feet". I did chop off my feet, and I'm still overcome by this wicked shoe craving!!! 

I don't know if this makes the state I'm in "fake" or "incomplete" or whatever. Frankly, I couldn't care less.

Maybe when I come across the right pair of shoes, my feet will miraculously grow back on...? Hey, this might be the answer to my original question!

Thanks a thousand.

Love you guys, both of you -

Wanda

[Da Zues Mon]

Thank you Wanda

It seems, I connect with what you're saying so intimately Wanda, almost as if I would've wrote it myself. This means so much to me right now. That there's someone out there that understands exactly what I'm going through and found the words i dig so deep to find to put on paper to reflect upon so in that way I wouldn't have to feel sick..*cyber-hug* Thank you so much Wanda

[Jeff]

Wanda,

It is interesting, but I read it differently (maybe it is the different experiences of our paths). To me, he is saying accept it all and let go (or surrender). Or if your feet hurt, don't cut them off, but accept the pain, let it wash over you and then you realize that it was never really there. Shoes don't really matter  .

Wanda & Zues,

Don't take this the wrong way, but from both of you, I sense a loneliness. A strong desire for acceptance and to fit in. You both describe having huge struggles ( or dark nights) with your ego. A fight to the death. You are both probably further along than I am, but my experience has been more like letting air out of a balloon.  Do you mind describing your religious background/framework? How old are you? Family situation?

We all have different paths, but sometimes it helps with a translated perspective.

Always remember, this small part of the universe cares.

Peace & Love, Jeff

[Jeff]

Found another Osho quote that I thought you might find interesting (TAO - The Pathless Path Vol2).

"Just think of a moment with the mind suddenly gone – where will you be? What will you be? You will lose all identity. You will simply melt and disappear, evaporate. It will be maddening... hence without the Master the path is very risky. And when the glimpse of the beyond comes to you for the first time it will shatter you and you will not be able to see the positivity of it – you will see just the negativity of it. You will see what it has taken away from YOU, YOU will not be able to see what it is giving you. Naturally you are acquainted with your past and the past is going away, fast You will simply see yourself as disappearing.

And for the new that is being born you don't as yet have any language; for the new that is being born you don't as yet have any concept. The new that is being born is invisible cannot be touched, cannot be heard, cannot be smelled cannot be tasted. It is beyond senses. You have never before known the new that is happening so how will you recognise it? The new will not be recognised and the old will be disappearing so you will feel yourself going mad, falling apart dying. Death will be your experience or madness will be your experience. You will think that this is a curse that has happened to you. The blessing will look like a curse because you cannot yet see it as a blessing, your eyes are not trained or it. You can only see the curse, you can only see the negative part of it. This is what Christian mystics call 'the dark night of the soul' – the light is so blinding it almost looks like darkness."

[Wanda]

Do you mind describing your religious background/framework? How old are you? Family situation?

I've sat on this question for weeks, because it led me down an unexpected trail of thought.

As I read the request, I started to compose an answer in my head, how to tell my story in a few sentences, what could be important to the topic at hand...

Then, I realized the irony of it - I posted here for advice on how to live with a lost ID and erased personal history, and now somebody's asking me to recreate it!

Well, I wasn't resurrected amnesiac, I can still recall the life I had before, if I want to. The real question is, do I really want to... And I reached the conclusion, that I don't.

Thank you Jeff, for asking the question. 

[Wanda]

Thank you Wanda
*cyber-hug*

 

[Jeff]

Well, I wasn't resurrected amnesiac, I can still recall the life I had before, if I want to. The real question is, do I really want to... And I reached the conclusion, that I don't.

Very profound. Another question, are aloneness and oneness two sides of the same coin?

Peace & Love.

[Da Zues Mon]

Well, I wasn't resurrected amnesiac, I can still recall the life I had before, if I want to. The real question is, do I really want to... And I reached the conclusion, that I don't.

Very profound. Another question, are aloneness and oneness two sides of the same coin?

Peace & Love.

I've been wondering the same exact thing Jeff. Seems to me that aloneness is created through being a captive of conceptualization of ego compared to the freedom and equanimity of All That Is. To the dualistic ego-mind, oneness is effin' scary and could be associated with loneliness especially if the world was perceived merely by face value, absent awareness of the Essence.

[LovetheLotus]

Dear dear Wanda! What an amazing life to live as you live it. I have to say my daughter is very much like you(she is 23)and felt similar as you.

Would it hurt to see things in this light: You are like a brand new slate. So every experience is new to you, in a way. Rejoice and enjoy. Babies do.