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Hi... I was wondering how necessary is the presence of a teacher to guide you through the kundalini process if you have good grounding tools (like gentle breathing techniques by teachers like thich naht hanh). The question comes bc by reading your article about past lives you talk about intiations and how important it is to clean all the signs that were implemented during this live or past ones (like reiki signs). If i understood correctly this symbols cannot be cleaned by ourselves (meaning that a teacher or master is a must rather than a help). I would also like to see what you think about this ashram (guruswamig.com)

Thanks for the light

AJA

  I believe in past lives every second tuesday. There is only Now.

  I prefer not to comment on other teachers.

  The Guru gig does not work for westerners, we do not come from the cultural conditioning of a caste system and the result is an unhealthy codependence that drives the Guru into insane controlling behaviors or ill health.

  Lots of people do the kundalini process alone. Helpful to have a group or some support for questions or issues that come up... a more objective view.

  Blessings...

Thanks for the advice. What about the cleaning of the symbols. Can we do it by ourselves?

Thanks again for the light

AJA

  Wrote about that here:

http://kundalini-teacher.com/visitors/index.php/topic,19.0.html

But the presence of an enlightened teacher must be helpfull to most people during the kundalini process,not just thier physical presence and shaktipat which is supportive for meditation but also as a guide to help the seeker not to get lost in mind-trips and to hammer the ego also if the teacher is truly enlightened then they exist as pure love and are not open to power games and control .If the student understands intellectually they will miss but if their is a heart connection, magic can happen and if the diciple is really ripe and ready to understand then the transmission can take place,between master and diciple.Then there is no diciple,no master only the One is left behind. Is that permissable?

Hi... thanks for the reply suhi... the question then is... how do we know for sure that the teacher is really enlightened?

Quote from: sushi on February 05, 2009, 04:36:04 AM
But the presence of an enlightened teacher must be helpfull to most people during the kundalini process,not just their physical presence and shaktipat which is supportive for meditation but also as a guide to help the seeker not to get lost in mind-trips and to hammer the ego also if the teacher is truly enlightened then they exist as pure love and are not open to power games and control .

  It is not true Sushi.  You seek to advise about what you do not understand. Have you ever been a Guru? No?  

 I have, I attained the Siddhis more than a decade ago and experimented with the dynamic extensively before abandoning it as a toxic and codependent dead end, in favour of simply being a teacher, and teaching people to connect to their own inner Guru and process their own karma.  Serve Goddess within themselves and have none before *including* me!  

 Even with the Shakti fire on these websites, there is a spiritual agreement that the karma that is triggered is redirected back to the seekers own inner Guru to be unfolded, not to me... and even so I must be mindful and spend time every day releasing what slips through the cracks and flows to me because of people preferring to project Goddess onto me instead of seeking Her in themselves.

 I may offer a helping hand by providing a place to connect to the Divine, some energy and useful information but I will not disempower people by being Goddess for them.  They have to find Her within themselves.  They become empowered with self knowledge by walking the path on their own feet; this creates a stable foundation for genuine enlightenment.  I refuse to be somebody's co-dependent addiction.  

 When the Guru takes on karma that the seeker is not ready to release, these blockages get caught in the body of the Guru, and they either go insane with control issues or die of kidney or liver failure like Ramana Maharishi or Yogi Bajan of 3HO.

 The control games of the Guru psychosis are unconscious, triggered by the body's own survival instincts. The body tries to protect itself from the toxic content of unreleased karma by ever increasing levels of control in hopes of somehow coercing the seeker to let go of the karma that is poisoning the Guru in body and mind.

 Osho was not immune either, he became obsessed with AIDS and fear of overpopulation, insisting his seekers get themselves sterilized.  Many complied only to regret it later. He obviously was not seeing perfection nor perfectly detached, to require such an extreme procedure of his seekers.  He was addicted to prescription medicines.

 I challenge anyone reading, to find an example of any Guru who is not crazy with power games or sick.  It is an inevitable aspect of the dynamic of taking on karma from seekers, what cannot be released turns toxic in the body.  The karma itself is fragments of ego and those fragments affect the teacher.

  The exceptions are to be found in teachers who are not Gurus, enlightened beings like Byron Katie who promote methods for people to discover and resolve their own issues.  

 Go through the list: Muktananda was a rapist, Sai Baba is a pedophile, Gurumayi goes into tearing rants at her devotees. Shri Nirmala Devi is one of the worst, she even decides who her devotees will marry. Adi Da has several varieties of crazy, he tells his devotees that he is a dangerous anarchist and gives alcohol to children.  The more devotees they have, the crazier they become.

 The teacher whose link the OP posted about has an entire page explaining how one must never criticise, contradict or resist the teacher, and another page explaining why sometimes students who resist must be sent away. She does not explain what I am explaining here; most Gurus are not in the body enough to be aware of the physical toxicity.  They have a fall from grace without realizing how controlling they have become.  

  Wishful thinking on her part, an effort to control.  Of course her students will resist because resistance is all the ego knows, resistance is its nature.

 This is her body talking, the physical necessity of survival instincts... and from the photo you can see the teacher is overweight, the water gain of edema is the first step to kidney and liver failure as a result of the toxic effects of taking on karma that cannot be released because its owner wont let go.  

 Seekers resisting and the Guru becoming sick or insane because of it, is inevitable, especially if the seekers are westerners who did not grow up in a hierarchical culture like a caste system.  

 Free Will is Goddess law, so long as the devotee does not resist the karma releasing then it is a smooth flow, white magic of compassion. As soon as there is any resistance the white turns to black: disrespect of free will and the whole game falls down.  For that matter, if the seeker is really ready to release the karma then the Guru is not needed.  

 Not just Gurus either: empathic healers, massage therapists, chiropractors all have problems with kidney and liver toxicity because their work involves taking on karma from people who may not be really ready to let it go.

 The important thing is to realize the distinction between the infinite spirit and the human vessel.  In the east this is understood, because Gurus are part of the culture.  It is westerners who cannot make the distinction and project onto the human vessel instead of seeking communion with the infinite spirit.

  Muktananda's books are blissful to read, Oshos writing is full of wisdom. I love his work but I can still see the fallible human and the issues he became caught up in.  

Infinite love and acceptance is the nature of their spirit but the body and mind still became poisoned with fear and control issues of their students karma. Ramama said straight up that it was the karma his devotees would not release, that killed him by destroying his liver. Ramana is considered to be one of the greatest teachers of modern times, but his extreme degree of enlightenment did not save his liver.

  What you speak of is a fantasy of spiritual idealism, it is not borne out in facts of actual life experiences of living Gurus. In the end they are after all, human and fallible.  If you insist on having a Guru, then pick a dead one, at least they no longer have a liver to poison.

   It is a dead end, in any case.  It is through releasing your own karma that you get to know yourself, your personal demons, your psychological and karmic predispositions. "Know thyself" is the spiritual imperative. If you get to know your demons then you will recognise them next time they appear; as they inevitably will because we are like trees, we never stop growing until we die.

  When I was working the Guru gig, some of my devotees attained self realization in six months, but they could not sustain it on their own because they did not walk there on their own feet; I carried them.  If they had a fall from grace they could not get out on their own.  You see this in ashrams, which teach that if the seeker leaves the cult group they will fall into hell and become stuck... and plenty of examples of that particular hell in the cult exit support groups for sahaja yoga and others.  

 What did they expect? It takes a peculiar brand of selfishness and laziness to want to dump your karma and give your power to another to enlighten you instead of doing the work yourself.  Enlightenment is ultimately a do-it-yourself process if it is to have any value.  

 An enlightened teacher is useful: this forum is evidence of that, but there is an enormous difference between a teacher and a Guru. A teacher teaches you how to grow, a Guru does most of the growing for you... and in the long term it does not work.  

  That is part of why I mostly do not comment on other teachers or Gurus... the people with the infantile rescue fantasy who seek a Guru to avoid taking responsibility for themselves, get what they deserve. It is impossible to teach someone personal responsibility; if they have to learn the value of it the hard way, so be it.  Goddess provides bad Gurus to help them along.

  When they are ready to be responsible, they find me. An astonishing number of my students are ex-devotees.. even ex-personal devotees of Adi Da, Nirmala Devi, Muktananda, Gurumayi, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi... quite a few ex cultists too, of every group from Moonies to ... you name it. The come to me, sometimes scarred from having given their power away, sometimes uplifted but having hit a place of stagnation in their personal growth.  By giving attention to the inner Guru and their own Divine beloved they attain Grace that cannot be gained through giving their power away to a Guru.

 Yes, a teacher can be useful. There are many pitfalls along the path, places where falling into psychosis is a hazard and having someone to give you feedback is extremely useful... the value of Satsangh, spiritual company.  Even if that feedback does not come from a single teacher but a group composed of various disciplines like my Kundalini email list.
http://kundalini-gateway.org

 Sushi, it is for my lineage healers to respond to seekers questions in this forum.  You are not one, nor are you  wise or enlightened enough to be answering seekers questions with accuracy or authority of experience.  You are an attention vampire and I prefer you do not use this forum to meet those ego needs.  You may ask questions or speak of your own experiences, but you are not a teacher or guide here. Respect that.
 Thank you.  

Hi Mystress,

I really got you point. Thats why i like buddhism very much. I think they believe mostly in the figure of a teacher or to be more accurate the Teachings themselves. Regarding the reiki symbols i know you already answered that but going through your site i came across this blog http://kundalini-teacher.com/visitors/index.php/topic,1.0.html where gustav suggests that giving it to goddess might also clean the symbols (reiki). The thing is that the link he gives no longer appears online.

Thanks

AJA

I completly respect your way andideas regardinggurus and findingthegoddess and the wisdom within, butstill insist that theauthenticallt enlightened master , who isalways recogniseable bythe eyes andthepresence of healing energyaroundthem, is essential for anyseeker who is ready to attain toself realisatyion, true selfrealisation is not something which canbe lost by the absenceof the teacher or any karmic issues, whenthe diciple is enlightened , permanenlty, then it cannot be lost .
The scriptures always recommend thepresence of the guru, and even unenlightened gurus of which there are thousands inindia can provide assistance to the seeker who is intensivley dedicated to finding ther truth, howeveri FULLY RESPECT YOUR IDEAS.bUT THE IT IS LIKE THE BLIND LEADING THE BLIND, AND HAVING SOMEONE WHO IS AWAKE ASND WITHOUT THE PRFESENCEOF EGO, the vechile for the whole to woerk trhough themis essential andmuch easier then working alone. Wirth love, Sushi

Beloved mystress, yestarday I was in a rush and could reply fully to yuor message.I am not actually an attention,vampire,nor in a state of psychosis.I am certainly not enlightened ,nor have any pretesions of being a teacher,I am ceertainly justa beginner in meditation.However , i have had the experience of being in the incredible love of the masters and his buddhafield which always cuts through any crap , mindgames and ego trips.Also the experience of the one I am talking from my own experience,not justs omething I have read in books or heard from another.I have also had the experience of god being the only doer.I only came on this forum to see if you had any similar experience with latihan or problems relating to my own. And felt I had to answer someone else who was being effected by chronic fatigue syndrome,which had also effected my life until I found the way out of it.Sorry, Idid nor realsise that not anyone was allowed to answer on your forum>MUch Love, Sushi-la

I thought we could go into these interesting debates again as last time I was peoccupied with something else and did not have time to answer properly to your comments.
You wrote,that Osho 1was obviously not in a high enough state of detachement because he was obsessed with the aids issue and wanted to get everyone sterilised.I dont agree with all of Oshos ideas,but at the same time I do see his ideas about aids to be insightfull at the time,when aids waw first discoved in the early eighties,he advised everyone to have an aids test to make sure that the disease could be kept under control,and he predicted that it would wipe out two thirds of the earth.(This is when there were only a few cases reported)So he wanted to keep his commune free of the threat of aids and this is where compulsory testing came in.I dont see how this idea doesnt come from a high state of not-attachment.Osho had entered the seventh body and was fully enlightened! Also,you say that he was addicted to pescription medicines.This idea that he was addicted to valium comes froim Sheela and no other sources,Osho`s secretary,who tried to poison Osho`s doctor on the ranch and who was experimenting with poisons at the time,as well as wiretapping and bugging the whole commune as well as Osho`s room.When she left the ranch she was talking to the press and accusing him of being addicted to valium and nitrous oxide.When asked about the accusation by the press Osho replied that this was not in fact true and that Sheela had seen him take valium once on the plane to america to help him to sleep.I think he is probably a more reliable source than sheela,although he was taking medication for his health problems which included diabetes,back problems and a some sort of poisioning of an unknown time towars the end of his life.However,Nisargadatta Maharaj ,the great south indian master used to smoke beedies ,Ramana Maharshi was addicted to Pan(betel) which is a narcotic,and Sai Baba of shirdi used to occasionally smoke tobacco and opium in his chillum.I think all of this had reached a profound state of non-attachment and has attained the ultimate freedom.Yet there lives continued in a normal fashion. I love this mind-fucking! Any more comments?

  Your three posts, and the fact that you have responded to nearly every post in this forum, often more than once, (and in all caps!!) really validates my statement about your attention getting behavior. That and the fact that people rarely respond to your posts with more than a subtle suggestion that you are projecting, suggests I am not alone in this observation of you.

  Besides which, you completely missed my point. I never said Osho was not self realized.

  There is the Dalai Lama, and there is a guy, Mr. Rinpoche... the spirit and the human. Enlightened people remain human, often even more fully so with human foibles and injuries.  People like you, with Guru obsession are chasing an ideal, the Dalai lama of the teacher and refusing to see or acknowledge the human. Such expectations are hard on the teacher and create unreasonable expectations within yourself for your own path.

  There are also the opposite reactions; people who sieze on any evidence of a teacher acting human as evidence that the teachers attainments are not real.  Like, if Osho was self realized why couldn't he cure his perfume allergy, or AIDS in his followers?  People think stuff like that...

  Better to have a middle path; accept that it is possible for a self realized being to still have illness, allergies, obsessions or bad habits.  Ironically, seeing perfection in All can mean having no motive whatsoever to make any personal changes.
 
   Self improvement is worth doing; do it before you attain realization because afterward you won't care. 

  Stop using this forum to get attention and promote Osho, or I'll ban you quicker than you can say "Bob Boyd."  LOL.

   Blessings...

Nice one.Here`s an interesting link I found from Swami Arun from Nepal at http://tapoban.com/?q=swamiarundiscussion

P.S.
Osho always made it clear that he never wanted to be treted like a saint or a mahatma,just an ordinary human being.That people have their own ideas about how enlightened people shoud behave,making them superhuman.But all this is natural.Enjoying the leela and this great discussion which will surely be preserved in the Akashic record.
With love,Sushi

Quote from: sushi on March 28, 2009, 08:04:53 AM
P.S.
Osho always made it clear that he never wanted to be treted like a saint or a mahatma,just an ordinary human being.That people have their own ideas about how enlightened people shoud behave,making them superhuman.But all this is natural.Enjoying the leela and this great discussion which will surely be preserved in the Akashic record.
With love,Sushi

  Directly flaunting my clear request for you to cease promoting Osho on this forum has gotten you moderated. You will find your ability to post here has become extremely restricted. The next step is for you to be banned.

I believe the Guru is indispensable. But the Guru is basically your highest, purest self, manifested on the outside. God grabs your attention and devotion through a solid human being, someone who gives us mind-focus as a human expression of God; because God is a person, right?

There's a saying in India that goes:

"You use a fish to catch a fish, a horse to catch a horse, and God uses a human being to catch people"

I don't believe you can become too into or dependant on the Guru, because He/She is your highest inner self reflecting outwardly. Muktananda stated over and over that to worship the Guru, is to worship the inner self; the two are the same.

If a female Westerner is creating Kundalini websites, lessons, pages charged with Shakti, and people are finding this and receiving Shakti, then, I'm sorry to say; Mystress is posturing herself as a Guru.

I will probably get in trouble for this post, but I'm just speaking my mind. I hear so much rubbish spoken about the Guru Principle in the West that I often feel like speaking up